Pitching a new category from the back of a rickshaw with Laura Paciano | People are People | ep.01

Laura, thank you for joining me. My guest today on the inaugural episode of this podcast, the Influ2 People Are People Podcast type thing, is what we're going with. Um Laura Passinaro, you are the Chief Growth Officer at TestFit, but I got to I got to go through your uh your LinkedIn if I will. So, about a dec- a decade Yeah. A decade at TestFit. >> me, Doug. Don't age me. >> Hey, we're we're talking to each other here. We'll we'll spend 5 minutes on working with Gen Z at the end. Um but I've got time at Sonos. We won't say how long. IPO. Uh then moving on to marketing at Procore. Another IPO. On to Newmetrix, which was acquired by Oracle. Um in 2024, you were on the top 50 women leaders in software by Software Report.

And now you are currently at TestFit. So, who do I talk to you about getting ISOs at this place because you you have a good you have a good track record. >> It's not a bad hit rate. Um you know, the the the thing that's funny about that path, you know, you're like IPO IPO, every time I left right before IPO. Like literally months or within a year of like the actual IPO. So, I've never been at the company when it got to have that big celebration. But yeah, I I've I've had some luck and and skill, I guess, at picking a few winners. So, it's been fun. >> Yeah, well Yeah, there's luck. There's skill involved, but there's clearly talent behind it. So, um I'm surprised I got you as my first guest. This is a big get for this tiny little project we're kicking off. But so, you and I have history. I know you from our time at Procore and actually I think

my wife and you probably crossed paths at Sonos, maybe? >> No, yeah, I'm not sure. I don't remember her, but it was big by the time I left. It was a good 2,000 people or something, not the 20 some that I started with, so I kind of I kind of lost track of everybody. >> Yeah, well, we know your track record. Well, I wanted to talk about Santa Barbara. You live in Santa Barbara. I live in Santa Barbara. What's going on here? Like I I tell me about working in Santa Barbara. I've got my my own opinions on it, but you know, it's not a tech hub, is it? I mean, what do you think of >> No, in fact, I mean, I picked I'm from Oregon originally. I picked coming to Santa Barbara based on a picture in my grandmother's Better Homes and Gardens magazine. I was like, yeah, that looks lovely. I like palm trees. I'm moving. Uh so, yeah, that's how I ended here. I had no idea that, you know, this was going to have a few great tech companies come

out of it. It's It's surprising, um but it's also, you know, it's funny cuz around town, it's small town, everybody knows everybody and you've likely worked at one of the like four or five companies at some point. Like, you've got like Yardi, you've got like Sonos, Procore's been a big one. I mean, there's AppFolio. So, it's just it's I think it's just a bunch of former Silicon Valley that just want to be here instead, I guess. So, we got lucky. >> Yeah, you you moved someplace you wanted to live first for a job necessarily, right? >> Yeah, and pre-pandemic when you could work from anywhere, right? I mean, I was like I got like struck gold finding Sonos in the first place. Like they just happen to have like some sort of Wired magazine interview that I happen to read and I was like, wait, Santa Barbara. And yeah, happen to find it that way.

>> Yeah, I I often hear that from people too when I say Sonos, you know, has a headquarters or a giant presence. I know there's offices around the world but they have Santa Barbara. Most people think that too. They just go, what's going on in Santa Barbara? No, people are people are living and working. Sometimes it's difficult cuz it's nice and you know, beach weather. You go to the beach but um it's cool. >> Yeah. Although Santa Barbara's weather is a roulette wheel. You never know what you're going to get at any moment. In fact, it was sunny this morning and now the fog has rolled in like opposite of normal. So. >> Yeah. Yeah, well I've got a sweatshirt on. Yeah, it's our May gray, June gloom after our very tough winter. So I guess we'll take it. Yeah. >> Um so the the thinking behind this podcast, right? Is people are people and at Influitive we um like to talk about the person behind an account, right? So with account-based marketing, you're going after an account but with Influitive you're targeting an

individual. So I want to spend time talking about the individual. I want what's the day in the life of Laura as chief growth officer? And I'm talking, when do you look at your phone first thing in the morning? Are you checking email or you're checking Slack? Just walk us all through it cuz you're working remotely. I don't we can get more into TestFit later. I definitely want to chat about the company and how it's organized and what it does but um yeah, tell me about a day in the life. >> I mean, I'll admit I look at Slack when I get up and mostly my my daily routine is I check Slack first thing in the morning for any emergency or what I deem emergencies. There are no emergencies when you're working at you know, a tech company. It's really It's not life and death, but it feels important, right? Or maybe it makes you feel important. I don't know what it is, but yeah, I I check Slack if there's anything like I'll read most of them and then I'll just mark them as unread if I feel like I can get to that later. So like

sometimes I'll respond if I feel like, you know, there's revenue on the line and my time zone's going to slow somebody down cuz we do a lot of my sales people are in East Coast and you know, so I'm trying to get back to them mostly. Um then I get my coffee made and I take an urban hike in the morning. So I listen to podcast in the morning, go for a walk. I live in like a little canyon, so I just walk over the hill, get to see the ocean, start my day that way. Um come home, get a few bites of egg or something and and then I start back on Slack and getting through the stuff that I missed or unread after looking at first thing in the morning. >> Yeah, everyone so you're a full Slack shop over there. That's what we emailing at all? I feel like emailing >> Yeah. >> Yeah, the emails are mostly like the client-facing. I mean, my typical day I basically turn into a lawyer, I feel

like. I'm like reading redlines constantly for contracts, like larger contract stuff. Not ever what I thought I'd be doing, but I'm very thankful for Claude to help me through some of >> Yes. Yes, we're deep into co-work here and >> Yeah. >> it is amazing to have, you know, essentially an extra intern if you're good at giving that instructions to the intern, which I I feel like requires a little bit of slowing down. Do you I mean, Test It is a 10-year-old company, maybe a little bit more. I was just reading the press release, but it's a startup, right? Is that fair to say? >> Very startup, yeah. >> Okay, so then if it's very startup, are you I mean, I I like to think about the pace of things. Like is there like you know, do you do you have this urgency to you or how do you how do you find like a center? Because I mean, you you know, you wake up every day and there's a slack to get to. There's multiple slacks. Like what do you do to stay balanced?

>> I mean, yeah, we we're very startup. We're like 30 people and you know, trying to grow at the rates that you need as a startup with air numbers. So there's definitely pressure. Um, you know, now I definitely own the whole number and every part of that number coming into it, which kind of freaked me out initially before I took this role. Um, but I really, you know, the the thing that centers me most is like we have a very small group of people that they're all people I would want to hang out with. So like we you know, the the company itself, not to get into that cuz I'll talk about my personal stuff cuz I know that's what you're trying to get into, but you know, we we come together. We go to these things we call camp test fit and we all hang out and I remember coming back from my first one and I was like, I feel like I just made like 30 new friends and that's how it feels at work. Like we just have that kind of sarcastic, I mean, the slack emoji game

is strong. Uh, I will say. So it just keeps like humor like throughout the day, which is nice. Um, I you know, to keep balance for me, like my husband and I leave almost every day as soon as we depends on the time of year when sunset is, but we go down to the beach every day just to like sit and talk about how was your day? How was your day? And like watch the waves roll and just like usually grab a bottle of rosé, drink it down, you know, it's it's it's a lovely time. But like that is my cut off. I'm like I'm I'm leaving at could be four depending on when sunset is, right? Like I'm going to go have my sunset and you know, come back and then it's dinner and you know, try not to engage again. There's definitely nights where I have to get back online and work on a project that I didn't get to throughout the day, but I just I kind of I had a really good mentor at Sonos actually. She was like if you don't set

your limits, you will start the expectation that you're always available. And she's like don't don't do what I do cuz I would get emails from her at like 1:00 a.m., you know, like oh my god. Um so yeah, I just I got that lesson and I took it. I was like this is my time. Like sunset's my time. >> So you you brought up something about I love going to the beach every day. Just like you know, having access to the water. There's >> I know. We're so lucky. >> Yeah, something magical about that to reset you. You mentioned friends at work and this is something I've been thinking about a lot lately. This idea of work friends and how you actually have work friends in a remote working environment because you and I were both at Procore. That was a company that grew in a very small town. Not even Santa Barbara. It was in Carpinteria which no one has heard of really and it's you know, you're in avocados and surfing. So that was kind of like sort of like a

last thing like those were work friends. You saw them every day. How do you you know, do you feel like you said you did. You have friends at Test Fit. Like how do you continue to foster a relationship where you have work friends? >> Yeah, I try I mean I try to bring my self to work. Like oh my gosh, I almost said authentic self. I'm very very much a marketer, right? Uh I try to, you know, I put on my calendar personal things. Just like if I am meeting up with friends or something like that. Like I want my my work friends to be able to see like I'm prioritizing this. Um we have like Slack channels that are like cooking or like, you know, different topics where like there was like um one of the guys that lived in Maine and he'd have like the big boat alert like when you'd see like a cruise ship or something come into the harbor. So like we're just and then people in Florida posting like the rocket ship launch, you know, it's just like we've got random

topics going to help bring that personalization. Um we prioritize um random silent time at uh all-hands where we just like have awkward silence at the beginning until somebody breaks. And so it's always just like it's it's just part of the culture, I guess, but it's it's something super unique and fun. I'm like and we I have to warn new hires. I'm like, just FYI, like you're going to get on this and you're going to think like your audio's not working. Like it's it's fine. >> So so this is your this is your routine company all-hands meeting and uh it starts in silence just to see who breaks >> until somebody breaks. Yeah. >> How how that how that start? >> It's I mean it just started originally. I mean, a lot of us are introverts, too. So I think unless we had like somebody typical sales person personality, that's usually how it breaks. It's like they'll

talk about they can't handle it. They want to talk. And then that's how we start is something personal and fun and normal conversation with humans, right? Instead of like, okay, we're here and here's the deck and let's go through it." >> Right. Yeah, I love that. Um do you So, okay, so at Sonos you're a consumer marketer. I know they obviously have some sort of B2B uh arm of the business, but you went from consumer to B2B. Uh we are in, you know, in Clue too, we're, you know, B2B. What's the transition like? Is this impossible? Are there similarities? I do hear a lot of people in B2B today say they're trying to make it more like consumer. I'd love your thoughts on it. >> Yeah, I mean, I think starting in consumer is like probably the best career path for a marketer specifically. Um I think you learn a lot about humans. You learn a lot about what impulses they

will have because even in a B2B setting, they're still dealing with humans that have buying behaviors that they carry on from whatever consumer experience they have, right? The biggest benefit I think is missing today in B2B is the value of the brand. Um Sonos was like all brand, right? We were trying to build this brand and we're trying to, you know, I mean, it was a super fun project, right? Working on music stuff, but it really was about the brand and I brought that with me to Procore and in fact, I remember my interview uh with my boss when I first started there, like he was like, "I don't know, you're B2C, like we're B2B." I was like, "What? Like, I learned B2C not knowing B2C. That think I can learn B2B. Like, same thing." Um but I think that's the thing, like, you know, especially at at TestFit today, like, our brand is our marketing.

We do not pay for marketing. I I have no paid marketing budget. It is all social. It is all the personality of the CEO on LinkedIn. It is all coming inbound that way. Like that is pretty much like I mean we have people doing outbound, but it it really is I'm not spending money. It is brand that we have built through 10 years and we're still a startup, right? So it's it's takes a while, but that equity is something that naturally attracts people and it's something I think B2B needs to invest more in. >> Awesome. Well, you mentioned your CEO. And I have a quote from a release which was announcing your promotion to Chief Gross Gross Growth Officer. >> It wasn't with the meme, was it? >> Uh I didn't see a meme in here. I I thought it was great. I want to hear more about it. It says you know, and this is from uh Clifton

and he says, "During a business trip in Chicago, Laura challenged my thinking and helped me see that we weren't trying to disrupt BIM." BIM stands for building information management, if I remember correctly from my instruction years. We were creating a new category altogether. Well, I want to hear about the trip, if you even remember it. And I want to you know, there's always um you know, creating a new category sounds like a lot of work, but I guess it's the right thing if it's if it's true. So um yeah, tell me about the trip. Tell me about Tell me about um you know, I guess making this um argument um to to your boss, to your CEO. >> Yeah, I think I In fact, I think we were on a rickshaw uh being taken from like the conference area that was like a free rickshaw or something like to some other part of town or something like and you know, I think there there may have been some

imbibing happening at the conference, which maybe helped me loosen, you know, my speaking to him, but I really, you know, I was like, "That's not even what we are, you know?" And I I just kind of called him out on it. I was like, "I don't think we're trying to do that, and I think there's a bunch of copycats trying to do that, but we're trying to build something totally different. And I think that it, you know, that instinct of like building a category kind of came from my background. Like, that's what we're doing at Sonos. There was no multiroom. There wasn't even an iPhone when we started. You know, it was it was completely nuts what we were trying to do. And one of the things that, like, from Sonos that I was like, when once we had docking stations, like, that was the closest thing that I could think to describe Sonos as, and I had to use that as, "We are not that" in order to describe what we were trying to do. And so, I think I told that story to Clifton, and and, you know, really tried to apply it to what we were trying to

do, which is really like change the way that the whole industry works on development, right? So, you've got these crazy contracts between architects and developers, and like, where the money's coming from, and it just is locking people into this process that doesn't make any sense. So, we're really just trying to disrupt like disrupt that whole process, not just like, "How do you do building information modeling of something in 3D that, you know, you're going to have to build later?" So, >> Yeah. >> uh I think yeah, I think it was just taking from experience, and like, challenging him, you know, when I felt like I had the guts to do that. >> Nice. >> In a safe space, which was in the back of a rickshaw, where >> back of a rickshaw. Yes, that's where you do it. That's awesome. I love that it gets into a press release, by the way, because I um, you know, preparing to talk to you, I read that and I actually, having written many a release and executive quote, um, I thought that

was a good one. I I love the actual story behind it and I think it says something about TestFit and probably the culture you're building. So, um, but let's quickly talk about TestFit. Um, what do you what do you do? What are you what are you helping customers with? Where are you going? >> Yeah, so we we help at the very earliest stage before pre-construction even really begins. It's a phase called feasibility. Um, so architects and developers are out there looking to figure out what they can get built on a plot of land. And so, what TestFit does is we take all of those constraints, like site constraints could be, you know, you've got zoning code, you've got wetlands that you can't build on, whatever it might be. And we use our, you know, algorithms to basically determine, kind of Tetris-style, what will fit on a piece of land. And then we give you the pro forma, all the the financials behind that to determine is this a go or no-go.

It's basically that first gut check of can I make something work here and should I spend time like having an architect put together the entire set of plans and then taking it to an investment committee to see if I can get something built. So, TestFit's really about testing what's possible on a and finding the best use uh for something on a piece of land. >> And you're selling um, to to contractors, general contractors, or >> We do sometimes, but yeah, so a lot of contractors are starting to get into this game, which is pretty exciting to see. But no, that mostly we're working with developers, uh, could be owners or just people that develop and then sell to a an owner. Or architects are purchasing the software because a lot of times they're doing this work for free or they're they're spending 2 weeks to be able to turn around a plan and initial site plan to somebody that's not like full building

scheme, but it's like here's the footprint, here's the general layout like you were doing apartments or something. Here's the general layout and what's going to work and here's the parking that's that's going to meet the ratio that the city's going to make you have. Um so they spend a couple weeks doing that. So a lot of times there are purchaser to like, "Hey, let me turn this around in like 20 minutes and get it back to my client so I can potentially win the win the bid." >> Cool. And you said Petra style, when I uh if this podcast lives on longer than my six episode commit and I have some fancy graphics, I would show people exactly what you're talking about cuz it is cool how you um sort of just automatically fit in the spaces and it does look like Tetris. So but anyone listening can go check it out. I think it's testfit.io. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Worth checking out. It's cool little homepage. Laura, I think we got it. Thanks so much for for being the first guest and you like I said, if this goes on more than six episodes

maybe we'll have made history and you'll be back as like the returning guest one of those days. >> Yeah, I'll be like on the 100th episode like anniversary or something. Yeah. >> Totally. That's the plan. Thanks so much for the time. I appreciate it. >> Sounds great.