Influ2/Forrester webinar | Putting the buyer back into B2B with Buying Group Marketing

welcome to putting the buyer back into b2b with buying group marketing webinar uh i'm narusha methananda i'm the vp of marketing at influe2 and um i'd like to welcome malachi thread gill he's a principal analyst account based marketing at forrester thanks malachi and welcome welcome to the webinar thank you cool um what are we going to cover today uh a little bit about buying group marketing we've got we've got a little bit to cover um why we need to put the buyer back into b2b malachi is going to take us through that um buying groups is a new organizing principle in b2b um a new generation of marketing metrics and success factors for buying group marketing so to kick it off let's talk a little bit about buying group marketing so um for those who work with me or something to know about me is that i really enjoy powerpoint and i wanted to talk about account based marketing in the context of my uh love of powerpoint

i just i think powerpoint gets a hard rep i'd like to reach uh people in the product team at microsoft that manage powerpoint to let them know you know i really enjoyed pamphlet um so from an account based marketing perspective you know you start with your list of targeted accounts i know this circle looks like it's got chickenpox it doesn't these circles are supposed to represent accounts you know large accounts small accounts uh medium accounts so really you know what i want to do if i want to reach uh you know the product team at microsoft for powerpoint is look at microsoft and microsoft worldwide has approximately 189 000 um employees and those figures are actually accurate i got a reference uh from from this year but you know i don't want to reach all of them i would like to to reach uh to reach people in the u.s so 50 percent 57 um of those employees are in the us which take us to takes us to 108 000 um

people at microsoft and then um you know microsoft classifies 33 of its workforce as being in um its product team so i've taken uh that and accounted for that out of their u.s out of their u.s firm and that takes me to about 35.6 000 people um and you know but depending on um you know your program and your data sources this is really where your account based marketing um starts to focus but i i want to actually reach the people who are who are managing the you know powerpoint um so i took an uh educated guesstimate that perhaps five percent of those people are focused on powerpoint um and you know that takes me to around 1.7 you know 1700 of of uh of the micro the team at microsoft that uh hopefully is working on powerpoint and i want to give a shout out to and i just wanted to say that is my

total guesstimate around that um so the reason i'm the reason why i'm taking you through this example is because this is where buying group marketing focuses it really does focus on those people within an account that you really do want to reach and who who are interested in this case hopefully in hearing from me but in hearing from you so um let's dive into dive into that a little bit deeper so i know buying group marketing is a new term um it's another acronym that we can add to the marketing pile um but really what buying group marketing um does it serves to evolve the approach to abn um and we're going to go through the what how and why you know so what it's really about finding and engaging buying groups and decision makers inside your target accounts and this is no different to what i think what we're doing today that's that's always the intention around it um the how around it is really being mindful about monitoring the engagement

signals and sentiment of your key decision makers and across these buying groups to be able to connect your sales and marketing activities with or teams with actionable insights to be able to execute um meaningful activity and the why of this is it's to just to create a great customer experience and to be able to address what what or your prospects or customers need um to make their journey and your and their experience relevant to where they're at um so that at a high level is what buying group marketing you know is as we've outlined it and you know i wanted to dive dive a little bit deeper into this i'm not going to go through this in too much detail because i know malachi has got a lot of content to cover about this but really it's essentially um about getting working with sales to actively build interest and engagement throughout the funnel i don't think this messaging is um something that's groundbreaking in fact i think like it's it's very common right now throughout the b2b marketing

ecosystem with a lot of conversation about abx and abs as well but what does that actually mean so from a top of funnel perspective it's you know obviously around brand and demand and you know you're having activity aimed at awareness at that account level and then moving through it's around engagement and education so when the account is engaged moving across channels to be able to educate members of the buying group about what you're offering is and finally you know and i do love alliteration if you didn't know convincing convincing conquering and converting so you know when your sales team or when the key stakeholders engaged it's about being able to provide that air cover to really address the needs and concerns of those secondary buying group members and the influences within that to make sure that they're having that holistic experience and as a group they're coming together to to to come to that same decision around what your solution is and the why um of of what you do this why why do

this it's really to be able to start tying that top of funnel through through the funnel rather than just playing at the top and uh and then handing off to sales um to be able to help collaborate with them um to be able and and work with them um you know cohesively around engaging that buying group um and essentially creating that journey for your buyers um around their persona or their their where they're positioned in that journey so that they're receiving relevant information in a timely way so that's super high level uh description outline of what buying group marketing is and malachi um you're going to take us through you know why we actually need to put the buyer back into b2b absolutely thank you um and so when we think about you know what what actually is occurring right now and i think you said it absolutely well it's an evolution on account based marketing and so why is this evolution occurring we're

going to be going through a few of the changes but we'll be talking about data in a little bit but that evolution was really driven by data so we'll be talking about that in more detail shortly but first and foremost uh first and foremost the changes in buyer behavior are driving the need for these buyer-enablement strategies so even before the pandemic there was a massive change in what was going on in society and how teams and organizations leads and contacts were all consuming content what happened with the pandemic is everyone went mostly digital or entirely digital and that accelerated this change that we're seeing in terms of the buyer enablement strategies and how we need to think about changing our reach outreach and everything else additionally buyers interactions with suppliers has increased by 59 between 2019 and 2021 and we'll be going into more detail about why that matters momentarily but when you think about the

interactions that organizations want to have around building trust understanding the ecosystem understanding the landscape it really makes it important to figure out why this increase in action and activity is taking place and part of that is the fact that the buying team continues to increase uh 66 of b2b buying teams today comprise more than six people so when you start thinking about what's actually changing in the landscape and the committee that is being informed to make these decisions we as sales and marketing need to come together to understand the needs and wants of those buying group members so i alluded to the fact that we need to think about the leads and contacts not as leads and contacts but as a cohesive unit of a buying group that's come together we also need to partner more closely with sales and understand that marketing needs to be a support element but sales also needs to be involved in the process sooner and what we found

with our latest research is that seller interactions do matter at every stage from education solution and selection the percentage of respondents that reported that they are someone from their organization received information from the sales rep from the winning provider this is a key nuance uh to help them make the decision in that phase so we start finding out that you know the winning provider providing that information early in the education phase is a critical factor for sales involvement in this process so we've established that leads are not what's making the decision today we'll talk about that a little bit more shortly we've established that the buying process has changed partially because of pandemic partially because of data and partially because of changing behaviors around the buying group we've also established that sales needs to be involved in the process there's another thing that's going on right now that is critical for

organizations to understand and that is that uh the ideas of demand and account based marketing being separate ideas separate teams separate technologies uh has crossed the tipping point we we are on a convergence path between these two ideas and so when you think about how traditional demand teams are able to use data and analytics and intent and propensity to start moving broad demand more to the right and you think about how one-to-one one-to-few account based marketing programs are now able to add scale we've seen that for the first time ever this convergence is on a on a definite path and we actually believe at forrester that by 2025 the concept or the idea of abm as a separate entity within an organization will no longer be viable and so when we think about this this organizing principle of what the buying group and what the buyer means

we have to start looking at what is also going on so we have our buyers we understand their pains needs and wants we understand that over 60 percent of the buying groups consist of six or more individuals and we also look at the data that's coming out in terms of where organizations are focusing on their revenue growth as the organizations move from capex to opex the complexity of digital transformation continues many organizations uh it takes a lot longer they need to understand the contracts they need to understand everything that's going on additionally organizations are trying to understand the life cycle of deploying these types of products and can they choose a vendor that can solve their needs not just today but in the future and we believe that 77 um well the stat only 30 of b2b marketers are using digital marketing channels to enrich that customer life cycle today we believe that in 2022

marketing is going to be the year of the customer in which the b2b organizations are really focusing on that existing customer base as teams are understanding that depth and breadth of the the relationship with vendors the long-term value forrester suspects that short-term we see budgets going from 70 acquisition to 30 percent retention upsell cross-sell eventually to 50 50 and they're on their way to eventually 30 percent of marketing budgets being spent on net new acquisition and 70 being spent on that life cycle for upsell cross-cell and retention so we've said this a few times bind groups are the now the organizing principle so we're going to explain why we're going to go into a little bit more detail of what this means so just to to clarify um we have our markets right a market is multiple companies that are clustered around a common market segment uh industry geography or enterprise within a market we have an account and

this is where historically the account based marketing concept and the powerpoint example starts making a lot of sense uh within a an account we have multiple buying centers and so for some organizations especially small organizations they may only have one product and they sell that one product into one type of account and maybe i t but as organizations become more complex i could have one product that could sell into it or hr or it and hr and sales and so when we start thinking about how we need to think about the collection of personas involved in that process or offering it becomes incredibly tedious and so when you start thinking about the nuance about who's actually involved in this if we're spending all of our time energy and resources just on the account we start having a lot of inefficiencies that are introduced in terms of marketing budget sales time bdr rdr functions and within the buying groups we

obviously have the personas sorry so now let's let's set the stage and talk about this just a little bit more so then this this statistic takes it down slightly to say that um you know 81 of organizations with an annual arr of over 5000 consist of four or more buying groups so when you think of four or more and the the first statistic around six or more it becomes really prevalent and so we have our champions our ratifiers our decision makers and our influencers that are all part of this buying group and the example that i love to share here is to say let's think about it logically let's say our mcl to mql score is a hundred just to keep it simple and um any any mql that's over 100 we're going to pass over to signals which a lot of current demand marketers do the challenge there is we we introduce things like second lead syndrome buying group blindness where we

don't understand what's actually going on if they're really four to six to ten people that are involved in the buying process would you rather have an opportunity that has one lead that has a score of 100 or would you rather have four contacts and maybe each of them have a score of 30. so the total buying group score would be 120 which is much higher than uh the the one mcl or mql that reaches a hundred and so when we start thinking about that mindset we can start shifting how we need to approach the buying groups in meaningful ways and what this means is when we're deploying our programs what starts to change right we have our individuals the preferences delivery channels and content or divide are determined by what the individual needs the buying role is still pretty clear in terms of the ratifier influencer cxo et cetera when we start thinking about the buying group context right now a lot of organizations are really embracing the

idea that these buying groups start to move as a group programs need to consider the needs of the entire buying group we can't just create ad copy that's talking to the director of it we need to sell the user we need to sell the cxo et cetera and what's interesting is that although the the types of content may be different we need to find a package for that buying group to be able to move together because if we don't have a container or package to understand what's actually going on that buying group we could have multiple opportunities being created we could have one laggard that needs to catch up et cetera and so from an operational standpoint making sure that we move that group together even if we are able to consider that group in the content a little bit differently at the persona is still incredibly important so how do we do all of this um we introduced the first version of the demand waterfall by

serious decisions which was required by forester in 2005. and i talked about this quite a bit the first version of the demand waterfall was introduced in sorry the the first version was introduced in 2005. steve jobs announced the iphone in 2006 in january so when you think about the idea that was introduced of an mcl mql sql that's older than the iphone and so when we think about all the things remove the pandemic remove technology remove data propensity machine learning just all of the behaviors digital transformation all the behaviors that have occurred to make this massive change are incredibly prevalent and over the years we've evolved the waterfall and we just introduced the latest iteration of what we now call the b2b revenue waterfall and what this does is it really embraces the idea of our buying groups not only around the buying group in terms of acquisition but the renewal upsell and cross-sell so

when we take a look at how do we identify our target accounts and within those accounts how do we actually understand the opportunities that exist within those accounts uh going back to my example about different departments different functions to make decisions at different times how do we detect intent signals and prioritize our outreach this would be our activation layer and then how do we engage and qualify and start showing them the ads the copy the marketing and our validate and heading into our accelerate phase we're working closely with sales and so when we think about what we're trying to do we establish what our program types are at the top we talk about once again acquisition retention ups across cell but when we head into validate we need to think about how we shift our mindset to capture attention to increase engagement whether it is net new or returning or upsell and then as we head into acceleration we can now use these insights to focus on the buying group to deliver value

show authority handle any objections and drive urgency whether it is a new customer or a customer that's been a customer for 10 plus years well thank you malachi so i think you know we're gonna we're gonna deep dive a little bit into a new generation of marketing metrics so this marketing is a little bit might like my fetch um that we were talking about before i'm determined to make it work and for context smartening means sales and marketing together um i've also been hearing it referred to as smarter marketings i think it can apply equally across this is possibly the most interesting and important piece of information that that i can share uh from forrester in this particular presentation uh but our latest research is showing that in 2015 marketing source or mcl mql pipeline um was on 70 of cmo dashboards

by 2020 it was less than 50 percent we suspect that by the end of 2023 fewer than 30 percent of cmos are going to be focusing on marketing sourced uh in terms of the mcl and mql as an indicator and when you think about my my diatribe before about all the changes in behavior and everything else it becomes apparent and relevant that marketing needs to do more than just sourcing and acquiring that new logo we need to be thinking about things differently and the the sample size that was brought into this was was incredibly interesting and the the affirmation around the fact that it is so uh immediate that you know if you think about the evolution from you know eight years uh that a little bit fewer than 30 is is a big deal yeah i mean i think um you know this is something that we talked about and also you know introducing uh something that influential has introduced uh recently is um its buying

group engagement score which essentially looks at um across influ ii campaigns what that activity uh at an account level looks like but specifically within within that buying group so when you were talking about um the mcls to mqls and and that ratio of what you consider uh a priority um this this uh buying group engagement score really starts to look at okay well what is that engagement across that entire group in terms of who you're targeting through influence and then how does that hand off um with sales to understand you know what what is their propensity to convert or where where are they at on that scale so that you know the diagram on the on the right-hand side you know the the score goes from 0 to 80 it's considered engaged at 10 plus um and that may need to be adjusted based on audience and and what your uh your products and services are but essentially you know before that it's it's that it's again about driving that that brand and demand education and

then being able to really like pass the sales continue your cover and continue to drive that engagement score um you know as as um as sales sort of goes through the process um to be able to to really look at those granular um campaigns and i know this is something that we talked about before as well um you know with those buying groups uh you know whether you keep them together or whether you split them out in terms of um you know each of their persona and where their where their position is and i think it it can end up being quite complex and quite nuanced in terms of of understanding your audience and we'll sort of i sort of wanted to delve into that a little bit and um also looking looking at a crystal ball of like you know what metrics should sales and marketing focus on you we talked about this idea of the perpetual pilot and this you know in the context of the sales cycle and then the tenure of cm you know of a cmo um you know can we delve a little bit

deeper into that yeah absolutely you know one of the things um that's really interesting is is that it it is interesting and not a lot of tools can actually do that but when you think about the container for instance the opportunity object right if i have the opportunity object and it can be a container for the complete buying group but i have a tool that can actually still deliver an individual person based experience and the buying group can still move together it's incredibly powerful and we're seeing things like the update to the ocr where a contact can still have their own score and the summation of the contacts can have a score on the opportunity so hypothetically you could still treat them differently based on that intent but it's incredibly important to make sure that that group is still you know they could they need to be on the same bus they could all be watching a different movie um but making sure they're sticking together is critical um in terms of the perpetual pilots you

know this is something that i think is really important i think a lot of abn programs that are stuck and we we have a lot of conversations around abm pilots because often times organizations come to forester because they they were promised to panacea and they didn't get it and they had a failed pilot with an abn platform they tried another abm platform it didn't work uh and what's really interesting is that a lot of the mindset around this is that oftentimes abn programs really focus on the trailing indicators revenue and revenue is obviously important revenue drives businesses i suspect the majority of the people watching this right now work for for-profit companies and so when you think about how do you drive revenue that's incredibly important but when you think about if you take an example um you know as a practitioner our average contract so if you take this example the average tenure of a cmo and high tech the you know the average contract length is three years and the

common stated sales cycle is 12 to 18 months and so if the tenure of the cmo is nearly as long as the sales cycle and it's three year contract most abm pilots by the time they actually get them off the ground and launch them the cmo's gone and so now the next person comes in and resets and starts a pilot the issue is though that with this data that we have today with these programs that we have today we can start thinking about things differently so as a practitioner i was lucky i had a demand abm [Music] marketing operations and the bdr function it was awesome but what was really cool about that was that we took a really data-driven approach and i was able to say okay about high quality accounts high fit accounts they're showing three or more buying signals and i put them in a campaign for instance have my bdr do outreach them i'm showing them the very very targeted display ads the the connection rate of the bdr team went from one percent to

four percent so if you think about the down funnel implications if i if i'm having four conversations with the right person who has a business need that i can help and i'm creating edification and helping them where they're seeing content about us of course they're going to be more responsive and so when we think about those leading indicators we can start thinking about different things that we can start to do we can set up control groups where you know commonly uh some of the complaints that you know the this and i don't want to dig at sales because sales is great but we run these display campaigns and we want to know how many form fills we got well a lot of the purpose of them isn't that so we can create a control group say if i have a tier one account and opportunities on both let's make sure we don't show 20 of them ads and 80 we do show ads so now we can test how our journey life cycle marketing is uh really impacting positively and we've seen examples where the win rate jumps as much as 60

for organizations that are receiving that life cycle focus throughout that buyer's journey and it becomes self-evident because if if you think about it and it's down to an rfp and it's the final two companies and you're showing ads you're engaged sales is engaged and your competitor's not showing any ads there's that affirmation index or affirmational piece that's always top of mind right right and so i think like you know what we talked about it really is a little bit of setting up setting yourself up for success in in that sense you know with with the test rather than you know going whole hog um within the entire program that's one thing and then but also education around like and working with sales to be able to you know to have that have that uh synchronous relationship uh with that with that account um i think is is you know the key takeaways from that absolutely

cool and then you know we we sort of touched we've already sort of touched on this around the over indexing on on mqls and and looking at alternate signals i think this was this is quite interesting because um you know it was around the the ratio of you know what what you consider a like a strong signal from an nql perspective but then also augmenting it with uh things like your closed you know your closed one closed lost and then intent as well um is there you know what what should we be or what should marketers start considering when they're augmenting you know for those alternate signals and how like i guess what is what should we look at from a structured perspective yeah and and for you know there's nothing wrong with an mql um but a lot of times it's it's the data that matters where and when we think about a hierarchy of you could have leads that are scoring a hundred and getting mql but then if you

take a look at the account they're an account that would never buy from you they're a competitor doing research these are common things that people think about and so the the goldilocks zone are really focusing on okay can we focus on write accounts that have that are a good fit they're more likely to buy from us we know they're in market we can start focusing on that and oftentimes this is where the trust element with sales becomes critical because and this is a big misalignment thing if marketing is judged on mqls alone marketing can say okay i created 40 000 mqls i did my job sales you're not closing anything and then sales comes back and says well the leads were crap and then we get into the common sales versus marketing uh focus and so it really is building that trust and focusing on um the the quality of the the hierarchy right above that so once

again if uh if you have a high quality and this is why all three matter right so if we have if we have a high quality account that's not showing any buying signals um or opportunities not trying any buying signals someone fills out a form you may be talking to them at the right at the wrong time they may not be in market they may be doing research and you can decide what to do with that but if you create an opportunity and now sales is sitting on pipeline for three years until they're ready that's not good either that's not efficient um simultaneously if you have a bad account that's never going to buy from you it's showing a lot of intent and someone fills out a form there are a lot of instances where we talk to people that it's too expensive from a customer service aspect or they always buy on price these are all things that we need to think about and that's why combining the account based perspective with buying groups um becomes the the organizing factor for what we need to be doing right right and where i guess you know one of the things that and obviously from my um

uh previous experience as well intent is something that um has has and is is being um more is more more and more prevalent within marketing programs and as a signal you know what what's your i get we had an interesting conversation around different types of intent and looking at and understanding that it'd be good if we could uh deep dive into that a little bit as a signal to be able to include because i think that's that's certainly a question that a lot of people um have uh when they're looking looking at their broader marketing yeah absolutely this is a challenge is that everyone says they have intent and like the intense signals could mean very very very different things so if you're if you're buying uh first off you have first party intent are they coming to my website can i identify either their ipa address or the person people often don't realize that their closed loss data is often just as good if i know that it's a three year sales cycle

it's a good fit account and we lost it two years ago or three year contract we lost two years ago well hey maybe we should uh refresh that and go after it but then you start thinking about everyone says oh it's intent and a lot of people say you know their their intent's the best intent and only use their intent but intent means so many different things and it's hard to and we forestry call them buying signals um because the buying signals can be very wildly different so a content syndication uh signal where someone goes to that website it has to fill out a form to read an article it may be very very specific and a high-tech example it may be a foot wide but a mile deep where some of the other intent aggregators may be a mile wide covering every single topic that's available but they only say high medium or low um and then you may have a review website that is you know really accurate at saying if if someone's looking at acme versus beta they're looking for

this solution category well oftentimes if they're at the stage where they're comparing acme versus beta um and you're not acme or beta you're out of the rfp you're not going to be coming back in and so that's not to diminish any of those signal types they're all incredibly important but how organizations understand that and how they triangulate them becomes critical and they they honestly become additive if people can have access to them and add them together in some way it really starts moving the needle and the odds that they're in market starts jumping dramatically yeah well yeah i know i think that's that is you keep the nail in the head and being able to triangle triangulate how you actually use them um you know in incongruence like or orchestrate them so that it's right for for what your what what your product is what your services and what your audience who your audience is as well in terms of in terms of consumption um and i know

we've sort of touched on the final point or the last ball um around the normal normalization and efficiency around who's in market and really you know i think the crux of what this is from from what you were talking about is like who is actually in market because you know there's always this expectation that all of your accounts are always in market at all the time and you know that's just not true yeah and i mean this is one of the challenges that uh you know oftentimes people want to combine propensity to buy with intent signals and you can have a very high propensity account that's not in market and you can also have very highly active accounts that aren't high propensity and the the example i like to use is going back to the three-year contract is if we put all of the accounts and normalize all of our data over a long period and where sales and marketing are just picking accounts out of a hat which is what we see often

we're going to be wrong 66 percent of the time um and so this random act of marketing means that we have uh inefficient marketing budgets because we're advertising to the wrong people wrong timing inefficient sales usage of time going back to that one percent versus four percent for an rdr team well it's it's just as much timing as it is um understanding that and so you know if we if we go back to the the buying signals you know the goal of adding buying signals using this data and understanding and combining it together it's not to get to 100 accuracy but if we can get from you know one intense signal let's say it's 50 accurate just picking a number out of the air well if we go from 33 percent to 50 that's a 16 um percent improvement now it sounds bad it's a coin flip but it's still better than you'd be doing before if we had a second or third how much higher does it go and i think those

are important things that people need to be considering definitely cool well um i think you know we're going to move on in terms of and look just look at some of the success factors around around buying group meeting i don't know how i missed that one should be buying group marketing success factors for buying group marketing and malaga i think you're going to talk to us about data yeah absolutely and we've alluded to a lot of this before but um you know organizations uh are increasing their spend on data um you know 47 of organizations plan to uh plans to increase their spend this year and we're working on the preliminary numbers for next year but when you just look at the market trends and organizations are just ingesting more and more data and this the commoditization of data is really what's making it accessible and when you think about the changing behavior you know five years ago running propensity models was incredibly expensive but the massive evolution of

machine learning ai etc as well as the volumes of data that we all create as human beings all being packaged together means that b2b is really catching up in terms of their ability to collect data and draw insights from that data so when you think about not just buying more data but are they going to increase the number of data providers if you look at one to nine and ten percent or more 47 percent of organizations plan on adding additional data providers to their pool so more data more data providers is what we're seeing is the the trends moving forward i agree with you i think you know data is um is something that is foundational and um so we've you know we've sort of gone through and like how to think about what are the fundamentals from a buying group you know to help with buying group marketing execution um split them into sort of three buckets around strategy experiences marketing um so obviously you know this is something that we've discussed throughout you know throughout the webinar in terms of um there

that connection between account like account based marketing and buying group marketing is is super important you need to know who you who you're going after you need to know who your icp is and what your prioritization criteria is um and have that strategy in place um so you're not sort of trying to find a needle in a haystack so to speak or to reduce that haystack um the other the other thing is having a really solid understanding of the architecture of who is in your be you know in your buying group um is is going to be critical to be able to to execute and having a clear understanding about who they are what their personas are what their needs are and what role they play as well and this sort of leads into into the experience bucket or experience category because really if you're clear about that then you can produce content um that is related to to their pain point and and that's relevant to what their role is a center you know essentially um and the other thing is

really looking at a diversity of um of your creative uh you know both both from a visual perspective but also diversity in terms of the channels of where they where they play not everyone looks at their emails not everyone looks at ads you know there are so many diverse channels so it's getting a really good understanding from that strategy of okay where do they play what what's important to them and um and where am i able to to get get their attention and part of that comes into um mapping and planning for the orchestration of their journey um of how that's how that's going so that it's you're not sort of saturating through that and making sure it's an optimal experience and finally smoking which we you know establish for sales and marketing um is is critical to this um it's critical to be able to have agreement around your the prospect journey stages and um what their accountability and their responsibility is so having um shared metrics um between the two teams is

is essential you know between i think you know you referred to that um that battle between sales and marketing where it's like well i gave you all the leads and then nothing converts and then leads the crap like that that i've heard that too many times um and and you know i think that's something that definitely has to evolve and i think is evolving um and i think the way to be to be able to do that around that around that is really having an understanding in the mapping of these accounts between the teams and how you're going to work together and having an understanding of what the communication is going to be like what the handoff is going to be like i think some of those soft skills or uh you know get a little bit dismissed in part of this process and it's it's really important to be able to establish them they're almost as important as putting a number or a percentage to it so um you know that's that's sort of uh where like the three this the three sort of

buckets around buying group marketing execution and i guess sort of finally it's you know this this strategy is really uh dependent on on uh you know an organization having lazy being laser focused and really having precision around their execution it's not it's not a sort of spray and pray approach at all it's about being very careful and meaningful in your actions so that's that's sort of what we uh that's sort of where we we concluded malachi you have anything to add to that no i i completely agree and i i do think that omnichannel becomes a critical factor and i i also think that yeah the the the we often times forget that the message um the way a message is delivered is just as important as the message itself and so understanding that nuance is critically important as well yeah absolutely cool well um that brings us to uh

to the end of uh to the end of our webinar um feel free to reach out to malachi or myself our contact details are there i think we'll close there then thank you so much